Posts by Half banana

27

Had the C.O visit this week...went out on service and Wow

by MrsR-Awaken in

this is my first post here (not being comments) but i still have to tell my story but for that i need to get my mind together in other to give as much detail as possible to be able to share it.

will do in a future post.. anyway i had to share this.. so i went out on service this morning (i never do i always end up excusing myself because i hate field service) reason i did was to see what the new c.o had to say and he sure did say something.

he was saying what we had to present and he went over the watchtower magazine.

Half banana

Wow indeed! a false smile is bad enough but an anaesthetic...ridiculous!

Your CO is a true cold-bloodied Watchtower zombie.

Welcome Mrs R, happy to hear that you have awoken.

47

Did Jesus actually start a church to himself?

by TTWSYF in

with some 30,000 different christian denominations, how would one know which one was for real?

some folks think jesus did start a church, others think no.

Half banana

In the words of the song “What it says in the Baable: it aint so relaable”. It is not what people say or write in a book which is “necessarily so” in telling the truth of a matter. After all it could be just wishful thinking or religious spin couldn’t it? Instead of immediately believing the truth of a text, the better question to ask is not, ”What does it mean?” but “Why was it written down?” Remember the Bible was written by men in authority for the instruction of illiterate people to support the cause of those in power.

As evidenced by Paul’s writings and those books written in his name in the early centuries of what we now call Christianity; there were many cults vying for dominance. That is why Paul gets his knickers in a twist when others came up with private doctrines at odds with his own formulas. (1Tim 6:4,5) It is significant that christ-cults were legion back then, declaring their own christs as the true one such as Attis, Dionysus, Orpheus and Mithra for example. The Jesus brand came late on the christ scene and there is not much evidence for the name of Jesus in the extant texts from before the third quarter of the second century). It is worth noting that Jesus Christianity kept evolving and insertions of key names and events were made into the standard hand-written texts over many subsequent centuries.

Christianity as a Church is essentially a fourth century phenomenon, consequently all organised Christianity today stems from what emerged out of the Roman Catholic bottleneck of belief. The idea of a divinely ordained primitive and pure Christianity existing before then is largely fiction. It was Emperor Constantine’s empowerment of his Roman Church to serve his political objectives which was the real birth.

It was by chance that Constantine had a lowly born mother the daughter of an inn-keeper who had adopted Jesus Christianity in the late third century. Constantine had no religious scruples himself (he had his son murdered and his wife thrown into boiling water) his interest was, not surprisingly, in power and the retention of power, lessons he learned from his mentor Diocletian, the systematic persecutor of Christians. Constantine’s endorsement of Christianity was purely for superstitious reasons and prompted by maternal sentiment.

A key to understanding to how Jesus Christianity trumped the other pagan cults is to be found in the politics of Rome under Constantine with its religious tolerance, at least up until the death of the Emperor. There was political capital in having Rome control all of the cults under the one state umbrella...total control is after all the most useful ploy for tyrants. Fusion of the cults, otherwise known by the process of syncretism, meant the acceptance into the fold of virtually all prevailing pagan doctrines. This has a significant precedence, it was the same method used by the Roman Empire to enlarge its sphere of influence by subduing its enemies, adopting them and assimilating them and their gods into Roman culture.

It was no mean task, but the bishops of all the pagan cults were bribed and given privileges to join the Catholic (meaning all embracing) Roman Church. In turn they contributed their dogma and personnel. In the quest for orthodoxy one of the most popular Roman cults, that of Mithra (Mithras) had to be assimilated without loss of face since it held a prominent role in the religious milieu . Bearing in mind there was no fierce partisanship among the non-Jesus cults, the Roman church needed to subdue and eliminate the ever popular Mithraism. How could it be done more diplomatically than by saying that the Jesus figure will build his Church on the ’Rock’. Easily explained away in Roman Catholicism today as an explanation of the first pope but in reality a cryptic promise to Mithraics to build the Catholic Church on their foundations. Which it did in the most literal way at the Vatican City on top of the great ‘mithraeum’ (Mithraic church) of the catacombs and metaphorically so by using their principal doctrines; notably the last supper and the eschatology (end times) as taught by Mithaism. Of course Saint Jerome would say they had different beliefs because he was right they did (he was the son of the Christian writer /forger/ biographer Eusebius by the way) but in the great syncretism all accommodation of all politically useful beliefs were eventually absorbed into the Catholic melting pot. Surprising it is that Jerome might talk about the hopes after death being different in Mithraism when yet again one of the many Catholic borrowings was from their belief in heavenly reward for the righteous and hell-fire for the damned.

Jerome lived in the post Constantine period when a state sponsored blanket condemnation of “paganism” began which deliberately set out to destroy and obscure the rustic folk origins of the Christ cults and their unholy fusion. This policy of distancing itself from its true origins is critical in understanding the authority the Catholic Church awarded itself as the all embracing holy and exclusive Church.

It would be implausible that Jesus (a literary figure) or any of the other cult figureheads could announce the establishment of their own church, being the ones who were the object of its worship! If it was written so, as it is in the case of Jesus, it exposes the mythical nature of the text which contains the information.

(sorry for the length)

47

Hello, this is my first post

by noralee in

jw
friends

hello, this is my first post, i would like to introduce myself and say thank you to every one on this forum, you have been a lifeline to me these last few years.. i had been a jw for 30 years when i walked away a few years ago disgusted by the treatment victims of child abuse, domestic abuse and rape receive from the wtbts.. at first i thought it was a local problem, elders personal opinions, the way they handled the situations, imperfect men etc., until i checked out jehovahs witnesses and child abuse/domestic abuse online.

that's when i realized they had the same modus operandi worldwide.

that led me here, tbuo this forum, and then to crisis of conscience, jw facts, watchtower documents, jw survey, old watchtower literature and cd s, reading a couple of steve hassans books, and more recently exiting the jw cult.. the feelings of shock, betrayal, anger at the wtbts, angry with myself for being so gullible, depression, reflection, loneliness, have taken their toll.

Half banana

Yep, as Cha ching says it's the joy of new posters having woken up to the real world which is so heartening. All of us having lived under the mind control of the disgusting JW organisation with its deluded leaders...may it soon implode! Welcome Noralee.

16

Un shunning

by zeb in

with change looming large on the horizon what will those people do who make a wt/career of shunning should it become just a 'conscience issue'.

Half banana

Zeb, are you making the suggestion that some easing up on the strictness is coming because some specific statements have been made--- or is it the from the defensive and ambiguous comments made by the GB in the Aussie Royal Commission?

Either way, to lessen the pressure on both the shunners and the shunned would not I think do the Borg any favours. The reason being that it would inevitably allow the light of apostate thinking to shine into their dark lives.

Let's hope it happens.

39

Hello, I'm new here too!

by redpilltwice in

jw
friends

hi everybody, 1st post here.

20 years jw, elder for 6 years, regular pioneer for 3 years, have always been following the 2012 candace conti abuse case with much interest, especially since the case suddenly disappeared from www.watchtower.com's news section (thanks brother j. r. brown, office of public information, because it led me to "worldly" websites for more info), leading to more and more dissatisfaction , leading to jwfacts, jwsurvey, ad1914, wtdocuments etc., leading to my awakening about 4 months ago, now fading faster and faster to zero meetings and zero field service...and you know what?

it feels good!.

Half banana

Well done 2redpills for climbing out of the Watchtower swamp and a star for your clever daughter.

47

Did Jesus actually start a church to himself?

by TTWSYF in

with some 30,000 different christian denominations, how would one know which one was for real?

some folks think jesus did start a church, others think no.

Half banana

Jesus is a literary legend, his character having existed at least since the early dynastic Egyptian times. For the sake of Jewish and for that matter Dionysian interest, the name “Jesus” was slapped on the back of this already very old fictional player and proclaimed as a real person. Not only ”real” but the man who miraculously overcame death and lived a second time. A written word who became flesh! (think about it) And the Jewish hopefuls believed.

There is no concrete evidence to prove Jesus’ life as a historical person which would satisfy modern historians, i.e. first hand eyewitness accounts from credible witnesses which would support his existence. Remember too there were many, many renowned writers of the Greco- Roman world alive at the time, who had he really lived, would have loved to have been able to testify to this supernatural marvel of a man. Pausanias, Tacitus the older and younger and notably Lucius Annaeus Seneca (the younger) amongst a host of other writers, gave no details of a wonder working god-man in their midst. They would most certainly have done so had he existed.

There is however evidence that unscrupulous promoters of Christianity such as Eusebius, the fawning biographer of Constantine, would happily insert spurious comment into the handwritten texts to make out that he really existed. Magical god-men like Jesus are the subjects of folk stories not the accounts of real people. The fact that he is believed is the result of mass propaganda for the illiterate under Roman rule in the fourth century and for the purpose of political control over them.

It is one of the biggest confidence tricks of all time.

The very mention of Peter as the “Rock” (his name in Aramaic) and the words put in Jesus’ mouth about Peter; betrays Mithraic origins in the Christian Church. As the myth would have it, the god-man Mithras was born virginally in the rock where the Catholic Church still stands today in Vatican City. The last Mithraic pope (Papa) or pater patras meaning ‘father of fathers’ was Vettius Agricola Praetextatus and he died in 384 CE believing in harmony with the Catholic teachings and with the Catholic Church correspondingly accepting the beliefs of Mithras the great shepherd. Evidences of this are found in the borrowing of Mithraic doctrines such as the nativity story complete with oxen, shepherds and three magi, also the last supper ritual, dying on a cross at the spring equinox, end times prophecy, a celibate priesthood, sacred Sundays etc. This is how the Catholic Church was indeed built on Peter, the 'rock' of Mithras.

It was always a case that the grandeur of power would bamboozle the poor and illiterate. The leaders did not ”believe” but the illiterate and downtrodden would believe anything they are told...just like fundamentalist Christians and JWs today.

Jesus is a fictional character, he therefore could not start a church.

Wakey wakey Jehovah’s Witnesses!

37

My First post

by Simple Minds in

i have been lurking on this site for 3 years and this is my fist post.

i would like to thank everyone for helping me wake up.

i was baptized at 24, married at 25, ms for 18 years mentally in for 24 years but started to wake up 3 years ago doing research to give public talks, and the actions of arrogant and narcissistic brothers and sisters did not help.

Half banana

Welcome Simple Minds, thanks for posting your experience, so glad you have listened to your inner voice and realised the enormous scam promoted by the WTBTS. Yes they claim to be the only 'really' happy people...that is absurd.

The words in Matthew attributed to Jesus saying "You must be perfect like your heavenly father" must be the worst possible psychological advice ever given. Anyone attempting it is bound to fail or end up in a mental hospital. No wonder so many JWs are on tranquillizers.

I reckon your request for time and space to recover your equilibrium is one that nobody can deny you and you can use the time to relax a bit, read and find your feet again. The trouble is as most of us have found, that as a JW we are not prepared for real life, only for life under the delusional Watchtower hope...so it does take time to readjust, but we get there in the end.

Anyway, well done for escaping and looking forward to hearing more of your story... and never fear the elders.

27

The Exodus confirmed..

by Crazyguy in

for those of you that don't research this stuff i will give a little back story.

we all know about the moses exodus, but history and archeology didn't seem to confirm this event.

the only exodus out of egypt ever recorded was that of a group of asiatic tribes that had taken over egypt for a bit over 100 years called the hyksos and the followers of the pharaoh akhenaten who perpetuated a monotheistic idea of worshiping only one deity the aten.

Half banana

Just a thought; how could reed and red be confused in the original languages... surely it is only in English that there is a similarity?

Second thought; the Egyptian "monotheism" of Akenaten was probably similar to Jewish henotheism which recognised other Gods but worshipped only one. Monotheism (belief and worship of an only god) arrived, or rather evolved,very much later... the Jews being henotheistic almost up to the first century. Anyone have evidence for a date on this?

90

ATT: WARNING

by EJ257 in

please be aware of everything that is happening around the world at this moment in time.

this goes to anyone, ex-communicated, removed, serving, believer and non.

at this point in my observations i have realized many religions/ideologies know there is some sort "end of time" or a transition into a new order of living in this earth.

Half banana

Get a grip on yourself man...it's our own death that is inevitable not the end of the world.

24

WT March 15, 2016 - Kids pressured toward baptism again

by Designer Stubble in

the study wt of march 2016 is up on jw.org and is the standard article around this time of year...pressuring young kids to dedicate their lives to the organization again.

this wt will be studied during may, so just in time to pressure them into baptism at the regional conventions this summer.such articles really upset me, as the realization of how many young promising lives will be destroyed.

how many families will be broken up, when the child who got baptized as a minor (ages 6 and up are mentioned in the literature) decides as a young adult that his/her conscience no longer allows him/her to be part of such a destructive cult.

Half banana

Baptism vows... interpreted for the practical meaning behind them.

Note to the all congregations; will the elders please make sure that baptism candidates are as young as possible, ideally before they have the slightest idea of the consequences of what they are committing themselves to.

The vows:

Do you give up your connections to the world outside of the congregation and henceforth put all your effort and money and time to be spent in furthering the property portfolio of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society?

Under penalty of death do you promise to be a servile worm and do everything you are instructed according to the edicts of the governing body of the JW organisation ahead of any personal or mere family interests?

Do you vow not to get an education which might expose the flaws in the Watchtower teachings and hereafter live in blind faith of the absolute truth of their current beliefs until they are changed for new beliefs which you will then defend with your life?

Do you vow forever to instantly cut off all ties with family members or friends who dare have religious thought at odds with the JW org.?

Can you say that the JW org. governing body is the exclusive channel which God is using today to build his property empire on Earth?

If your answer to these questions is in the affirmative... then gawd help you!